Like one
Who having into truth, by telling of it,
Made such a sinner of his memory,
To credit his own lie..
The Tempest. Act i. Sc. 2
this is my first post, yet i have been reading this forum since december....so here goes my first input.
My theory is that the island is every government's experimental garbage
dump....the place to hide all the bad things created in science and/or
all amazing uncontrolable discoveries. This would help to explain why
the french lady's ship of experiments was near the island....maybe they
were supposed to shipwreck there....as for the Lostaways....they are collateral
damage. The fact remains though that there were powerlines run to that
island and look to have been done so purposely. Why have a power source
if you are not using it for something such as communication/tracking/containment?
p.s. every dream sequence has had a viable meaning in the show......remember
in boone's dream when the monster explodes from under the ground? i think
i know what's under the hatch now.
Willy10speed
How does the junk arrive on the island? Is there a consortium of shipping
these governments use to dump the stuff? How do they keep the shippers
from talking? Do you think there is a yearly dumptime? When they next
come to dump stuff off, what will they do with the lostaways?
I've mentioned this in the thread about the monster being sighted: I don't
believe the monster burst up from the ground. What it still looks like
to me was a trap being sprung. Similar to the ones that Locke used to
catch the boar or Danielle had set that Sayid wandered into. I think the
stobor set off the trap and that is what everyone saw.
ChanceGardener
I think this poses some new ideas although I think the trees in Boone's
dream were uprooted. If the island is indeed a place for discarded "gone
wrong" experiments, the most interesting angle could be that our
Lost-aways are themselves experiments gone wrong. Maybe genetic engineering
experiment, and that is what Cooper and Emily were trying to fix on Locke;
maybe also on Michael (that's why they both get hit by the same car).
hg
Was it ever proven that John and Michael were hit by the same car? I know
they both were hit by a white car, but I don't believe it has ever been
proven they were hit by the same car. And why would it be necessary to
inflict physical trauma so severely on one of them but only knock the
other one off their feet? How would that tie the 2 events together if
they results are different?
And if Locke's mother and father were doing genetic experimentation on
Locke, why is it he was allowed to leave the hospital without being stopped?
Does this mean that he was 'fixed' then?
ChanceGardener
i want to express my Dad's comments since he is computerless as of right
now......he thinks that Jack has the most problems of anyone and could
become the real problem. He is a little more unstabel than Locke right
now.
Willy10speed
For either Large Willy or Small Willy:
First, how does the vision of "trees exploding" that was in
Boone's hallucination relate to the hatch and further, what then is IN
the hatch? You are not referring to the story on NPR about the Sugar Maple
trees exploding in Vermont due to the pressure building to such a point
that they explode because they are not being tapped since the demand for
Vermont maple syrup is down due to the twin combination of the low carb
craze reducing demand and the import of Fijian maple syrup (harvested
from old maple dressers and tables and such bought at auction and shipped
to Fiji where they are processed and the syrup extracted - due to the
labor being so much cheaper in Fiji, the shipping costs are recouped and
they can then sell the resultant syrup below Vermont syrup) further reducing
the demand on Vermont syrup.
Cause those didn't look like sugar maple trees.
And I'd like to hear how Jack "has the most problems of anyone"
on the island. Could you offer examples backing up this claim? And how
would that become a real problem? Could you expound further on that please?
Frankly, making vatic statements and leaving them unsubstantiated is more
suited to material to be found in The National Enquirer, not here. Most
of us here are more interested in discussing more fully developed theories
and speculations and I am hoping you can provide a greater explanation
for all your statements.
ChanceGardener
Chance, I saw screen caps of the cars and they are the same; the question
is whether it was a studio goof or not. Also the significance of Locke
getting hit by that car is difficult to explain. He just lays there looking
up similarly to Jack at the start of the pilot. Also when he gets up,
it doesn't look like the same people are around him, but I haven't made
certain of that. I guess it's possible that he went unconscious there
and some of his experiences were dreams/hallucinations; how much if any
I don't know. It looks to me that Emily intentionally tricks him into
getting hit by the car. She walks right by the car and then it cranks
up and hit Locke; looks intentional to me. Dammit I got to go back to
work!
hg
dang. i had no idea that everything had to be so detailed. if only you
knew how detailed i normally present myself in type and script.
so....details....in boone's dream sequence the monster seemingly exploded
from the ground towards he and shannon. i thought this was basic knowledge,
but your mocking me has apparently proved otherwise. anyway, i think this
suggests that with most of everyone's else's dreams having things that
come to pass, then possibly the monster is something that mainly dwells
underground....maybe the hatch is how it initially was put underground,
but now it's bigger and has dug it's way out somewhere else on the island
where it is not in normal everyday contact with the lostaways. For something
that primarily lives underground, what would bring it to the surface to
look around?.....maybe a lot of loud explosions or the sound of a plane
hitting the ground? the fact that it first came out at night implies it
was smart enough to hide in the jungle while it scouted what made all
of the noise............that detailed enough?
as for my father's ideas....he just thinks that Jack is losing it. at
first, we thought that sawyer was a real jerk and that he was the problem.
now think about how much Jack has continued to insult and pick at sawyer
well after knowing he isn't really much of a threat. also, Jack is headstrong,
he's the first person to start hallucinating, and we now know that he
will do anything to prove he is right. Locke has the same qualities...yes....but
Locke doesn't have the attitude problem that Jack does. Jack doesn't care
who he pisses off and he throws his authority around a lot. Locke is a
bit more timid. at least this is how it comes across thus far.
i hope this info will suffice for now.
Willy10speed
Quote:
i had no idea that everything had to be so detailed.
Yea, some of us are pretty anal about having sweeping statements getting
supported with examples. There have been many people who've offered "This
is what it all means and that's all there is so that's that," and
it turns out that they've been mistaken. So, to reduce the sense of crushing
disappointment we all experience when such theories are disproved, many
of us have taken to wanting such theories elaborated upon, so that we
may more fully explore, discuss, and judge their worthiness.
Quote:
...the monster seemingly exploded from the ground towards he and shannon.
Well, now see, I don't think what was depicted was the stobor "exploding
out of the ground" but rather was a trap being sprung that failed
to capture the stobor, as the trap was set for boar, not tree rattling
stobor.
As for it having been contained within the hatch, you may indeed be correct
but I think this supposition is one that will require more information
before we can determine if it is correct or not. For my part, I do not
think that it was ever in the hatch, but is a phenomenon of the island.
As for Jack, I still don't see the examples you've listed as showing that
Jack has more problems than Locke and that Jack will become the dangerous
one. And I think Locke's attitude is more dangerous than Jack's. Locke
got Boone killed in part. Jack has tried to prevent people dying; Locke's
put them in harm's way on several occasions. All in the pursuit of his
megalomaniacal vision of what the island is, what it means, and what it
will provide.
Further, Charlie, Kate, Sawyer, and Sayid have all killed, or have said
they did (Kate is still a question as we all know she lies as easily as
breathing) plus Sawyer, due to his ineptness, has forced Jack to be a
killer as well, though that killing was a coup de grace rather than a
heartless killing. They would seem to be the more dangerous and possibly
pose a greater threat.
In addition, Michael has shown that he has impulse control problems, leading
him to let himself get hurt, falsely accuse others and beat them, and
contemplate rash actions that could conceivably harm others.
So, I don't see how Jack is the one to worry about. So, no, your info
is really not sufficient for me.
ChanceGardener
Welcome Willy
Jack is a know-it-all. Nothing more dangerous that that!
artemisia
So Mr. Wizard and Bill Nye are more dangerous than everyone else?
ChanceGardener
Quote:
So Mr. Wizard and Bill Nye are more dangerous than everyone else? No,
Chance, you're more dangerous than anyone else.
As to the theory, it's actually kind of original and one I really haven't
heard before. It will be interesting to see where you take it.
JacksGirlfriend
I agree with Willy, not nessecarily about the know-it-all part, but I
do think that Jack is more dangerous than Locke right now. Locke has yet
to intentionally hurt any of the other lostaways. He also gave off the
impression that he would have climbed the tree that held the ocean cruiser
if he were not losing his leg strength again.
Jack just let Boone die. He can't let go, it has been a central theme
on this show, or at least that episode, thus far. To be honest, I half
expected for him to chop off Boone's leg anyway, if only to appease himself.
Also, in several other threads going on right now, others have mentioned
the "dark and light" theories, and in that scene where Boone
dies, Jack was weraing a black shirt and Sun a white one. It would not
strike me as odd if this was symbolic.
Also, Locke was crying at Boone's injury, yelling at the hatch
"I've done everything you wanted me to do!"
He clearly thinks that what he is doing is for the greater ood of all,
whereas Jack just wants to feel satisfied, even when Sun revealed that
Boone was bleeding inturnally, Jack was going to go about the amputation
anyways.
dawnnichole
Chance, I'd like to restate that I think Walt had something to do with
his mother's death, too. It may have been indirect, accidental, something
so innocent as a child wishing their parent would go away. So I think
he has killed, in addition to arson and whatever else he's done(knock
Sayid in the head?)This lumps me into the mess of people who believe there
is some spiritual/occult-like phenomena here, which is OK, because we're
not going to be held accountable for this at the End of Days, are we?
I agree that Jack has potential for spinning into oblivion. While he does
seem to value life very highly, his compulsion to not letting things go
could be foretelling future actions. I think that the split will be of
a nature no one predicted, not with all the intelligence mixed with goofiness
on this site. Jack's unwillingness to let things go could play a key factor
in the division, perhaps between those who seek to protect the baby and
those who seek to protect the group.
"Jeez, St. Peter, that post I made on April 12th was at the end of
the work day and you really can't be refusing me entry for that, can you?"
jeffsoup
cool...glad to see that not everyone is in attack mode. i mean....the
freaking title of my thread states " theory. " if i had the
answers i probably wouldn't have time for this forum, or either i would
throw out stuff that was completely wrong in order to stray everyone away
from figuring things out.
i love this board anyway. it rules.
Willy10speed
I'm not asking for answers. Amazingly enough, I do understand what the
word theory means. Part of a theory however is offering up expected results,
or examples to support the theory, or things that the theory could predict.
If being asked to support your theory is an attack then yes I suppose
I am attacking.
But to simply say something like "Shannon's need for new shoes is
going to lead to someone dying" and then not offer any reasons for
such a theory is not what, for my part, this particular forum is for.
I suppose one could start a Random Viewer Thoughts thread in Lostaways
or General Discussions. But I feel that theories here should be supported
and dissected so that we can learn from them. I mean, I put a lot of careful
thought in my questions to you and you get all dismissive towards me about
that. Perhaps if you merely wanted to post a random thought here and didn't
want it discussed or questioned, you could have put a caveat: NO DISCUSSION
WANTED at the start of your post.
ChanceGardener
experiments with conclusions offer results. theories are pronounced before
the experiment begins. i put out a theory and you are the experiment to
test the theory. your combined opinions are the conclusion.
Willy10speed
So are you saying your actual theory relates to how people respond and
discuss theories?
If not, and your original theory still applies, then what event or events
from the show caused you to formulate your theory in the first place?
ChanceGardener
Hey, lets keep in mind the point of this thread, okay you guys. This thread
is specifically about Willys theory of the island. Maybe he ought to have
supported it a little better in the beginning, but he came back and did
that a little later on, okay Chance?
Now, let me give you both a little friendly advice.
Willy: Just keep in mind that some people in the t&s board like very
well supported, detailed theories to discuss.
Chance: If you are so dissatisfied with the way that this or any other
speculation thread is going, then you should start one with whoever started
this board up, discussig a basic kind of criterium for threads that are
posted in this section.
dawnnichole
Dawn, thank you for the friendly advice. I actually have had discussions
and I believe that I am following the requirements for discussing T&S
threads within those guidelines.
You are correct that Willy did respond to one of my questions, but I am
more interested in how the island IS a dumping ground for failed covert
experiments, which governments use the island as such, what are the possible
logistics for having these experiments transferred to the island and why
transfer them to the island in a condition where they can start running
apparently. Also, how is the island being kept hidden/off the maps in
today's present age.
Does any of that relate to what caused flight 815 to crash and why the
crash wasn't more violent and allowed so many to survive.
Or, am I not supposed to ask?
ChanceGardener
okay, got it. i now see where you are coming from chance. i think i have
a bit of an idea, because i too entertained this theory for awhile, before
i became so obsessed with the children's story lines.
first off, i don't know that the island is off and map, there are so many
undiscovered or irrelevant little islands in the south pacific, that even
if people were searching for the lostaways there, then they wouldn't find
them.
As far as the dumping ground theory goes, if we hypothetically say that
this is the correct theory, then I would say that the island started out
originally as a giant lab, where they were creating the monster. then
it went wrong, and some peolple died, and they decided (they being the
government) that they had to contain it.
I think that, in this case, Ethan would have been one of the initial scientists,
or else some sort of guard to keep poeple on the island. He and his comrads
live in the hatch.
And as far as making sure that people don't squeal, well, the government
is notorious for keeping secrets about huge things. And, if perchance
word got out, it would be widely discredited as a conspiracy theory, like
the one that we never landed on the moon, or area 51, or roswell, or bigfoot.
so that part's not really that hard. next, getting the lostaways to the
island. again, simple. they just had to have one of their pilots on board
that they wanted to get rid of, then make the plane go down via electronics.
the one thing i can't account for is Danielle, and her crew. not sure
how or why they are there.
Another conspiracy theory that works here is that this is the experiment,
a social experiment similar to lord of the flies. but controlled, with
special variables, like ethan and danielle (who would be actors playing
actors if this was the case), and the monster being no more than really
big fans and junk. all controlled, just to see what would happen.
But that's another thread...
dawnnichole