Gon. Here is everything advantageous to life.
Ant. True; save means to live.
The Tempest. Act ii. Sc. 1
Alright, at the suggestion of Jacksgirlfriend, I'm throwing this out. I won't disown it, but just know that it's a theory, not completely thought out, which I'm tossing to you all for the intelligent consideration you all display on this message board. Seems like it'll charge a few of you up!
In the "If They Do Get Off The Island" thread, a few of us were
tossing around humorous epilogues to the show. As this line of silliness
developed, I remembered a line from Hotel California (something in response
to Jacksgirlfriend, who actually started this whole thought process by
suggesting a name for the post-show Island resort I thought the Rich Kids
might open).
Anyway: In Hotel California there's a line that we are all familiar with
(if you know the song): We are all just prisoners here of our own device.
I've written elsewhere that the only thing that bothers me about this
show is that 48 or so people survived the freefall drop of a third of
an airplane fuselage. That never happens.
Now, as Jacksgirlfriend has pointed out to me elsewhere, the producers
et al. have stated that everything that happens on the island is rooted
in science/pseudo-science. Which doesn't necessarily negate the possibility
of this state of existence.
As I say, I have not thought much about this at all, since it just came
up about an hour ago. So this theory is, in every respect, a tabula rasa
for all of you to etch your own ideas into.
Have at it! I'll enjoy the responses. And thanks a million to Jacksgirlfriend
for suggesting this new line of inquiry! It'll sure keep our brains fresh
to keep revisiting explanations for the premises of this show!
Dmcquickly
I actually love this. And for all you science geeks I'm going to tell
you why.
Let's start with Stephen King. SK bases all of his stories in reality,
your science/pseudo-science world. He has real people, doing real things
surrounded by the real world. But in a lot of SK's world, these people
and events are surrounded by something else. And that something else is
always based on the spiritual/psychic/supernatural or the monster under
the bed. His books usually have something that can frighten us, entertain
us and shock us and make us think of something beyond ourselves. Everything
is still real... it's just something else as well.
I expect alot of people to jump down our collective throats for this and
I'm waiting with eager anticipation. But if this theory is right, it's
going to incorporate everything. It's going to allow for fear manifestation,
a possibility of a physical purgatory, a higher power, a battle between
light and dark, religious overtones, a Bermuda triangle angle, a rip in
time, a French woman, a Philadelphia Experiment and just about everything
else we've come up with yet. Plus real emotions, real reactions and real
character development. I think it has everything we want.
Bring it on!
JacksGirlfriend
lol Bring it on.
I'm not sure I'd want to be living on THIS island! lol I like the idea
of a South Pacific resort better. :-)
But seriously, you have hit a few of the most significant points here,
girlfriend.
And not only does it incorporate a lot of the other theories (resulting
in a Grand Unified Theory, if you will), it allows room for future development
beyond the context of the first few episodes (even the first season).
So even as our characters grow and develop richly in front of our eyes,
it provides the writers with ample opportunity to present new challenges
to them.
Something to this, I think!
Dmcquickly
I think it's more than a possibility... I think this might be it.
JacksGirlfriend
It doesn't have the scientific backup of the Philadelphia Experiment theory,
which was awesome and made sense, but it does have the kind of creative
freedom a long-running tv show needs to keep it fresh.
Dmcquickly
Hmm... this raises another theory. "The prisoners of their own device"
could mean that they are all criminals and that the island is their prison.
Maybe in order to get rescued they have to redeem themselves? But then...
why is Walt there? He's only a kid.
I can't wait to see the other theories that are spawned by this. It's
really interesting.
EDIT: Damn spelling... :P
Spirit Shards
It doesn't need research. The show is fiction and a writer has the latitude
to make up any story, however fantastic, he/she likes. You can't research
someone's creative process.
JacksGirlfriend
"It doesn't need research. The show is fiction and a writer has the
latitude to make up any story, however fantastic, he/she likes. You can't
research someone's creative process."
Which makes this theory the most reasonable yet produced for the "backstory"
of the show. Its nebulousness makes it supremely adaptable to whatever
creative whims the writers might come up with. Unless they've pre-written
5 seasons of scripts...which I highly doubt. First off, who would pay
for 5 seasons of tv scripts? lol
I think you're right, girlfriend. This theory holds lots of possiblities.
Dmcquickly
"This theory holds lots of possibilities."
And everything fits inside it.
We still have everything grounded in reality - their behavior, their reactions,
what they find, what they see, what's been happening before and after
their arrival. But there has to be a reason for them to be there, alive
and well.
And I truly like that Locke fits so well into this scenario. The judge.
The jury. The one who decides...
Plus it opens up possibilities about redemption. What will happen to these
people when they're finished with the guilt they're carrying around? Will
they die? Will they be released? To where? The possibilities are endless
and also allows for the addition of characters later.
Plus it still allows for everything else. A small "island" of
unreality where anything and everything is possible... If it can suck
a planeful of angst filled passengers into it, the island can do anything
it wants.
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Spirit: I think Walt is there because he has guilt over his mother's death. Maybe he was angry, consumed by rage and fear and now feels guilty because his last words were something like "I hate you for dying!" when his last words should have been "I love you."
JacksGirlfriend
That makes sense! I never though of that! Maybe Walt is harboring ill
feelings about his parting words to his mother... hmm... I can't wait
to see his flashback.
Spirit Shards
oh lala!!! it's so cuuute!!!
the poor lil' walt
me i think locke is here because... He failled in something he was really
involved and he can't forgive him for this mistake because of his wiseness
(i hope i has a sense lol, i my head i has a sense, but it's because it's
in french lol)
and i think boone would be here because, i don't know...Misss jack could
you tell if i make mistake in my text??? not orthograph, but fot the sense,
or the verbs... or if something are "bad sayed" (i don't know
the englis expression to speak about something whic is not sayed like
it would had been)...
MEGA S michael surtour
Well, Spirit Shards had to explain it to me with his reply before I even
got what this theory is about.
Hotel California is one of my favorite songs and I even remember thinking
about it in relation to the show.
But I didn't get it from the inital post. I didn't find any theory there
to be exact. Something wrong with me?
Abraxas
No--like the show, I kept it purposely vague--a tabula rasa, that is--so
others could put their own thoughts down.
I'm actually developing a theory around this, but it'll keep for a while.
I am much more interested in everyone else's thoughts on this possibility.
A place they can't leave (until something specific happens to them, or
because of them, or something.)
Dmcquickly
"Mirrors on the ceiling and pink champagne on ice" might be
a direct reference to the mammoth, the black rock laboratory and the French
nuclear/genetic experimentation.
Sleeestack
Question for the board:
If indeed there is some redemptive feature to this, and the characters
become "redeemed"...as Jacksgirlfriend has suggested, something
OUGHT to happen to them.
Admittedly, they could die, right there on the beach. Released for their
journey to the afterworld.
But wouldn't that be too sad? To watch a tv show and have your favorite
characters die? The writers/directors would have to indicate to us, the
viewers, that this has happened--they've been sent to the Great Beyond--without
the main characters knowing.
If they knew, it'd be like you and me knowing our own destiny ahead of
time. (Whatever happened to that interesting thread here, anyway?) So
they couldn't know...which means we would have to know.
On the other hand, the characters might simply "disappear" from
the island without any explanation at all. Which wouldn't be satisfying
to us until it was finally explained. (That would be a terrific final
episode, though--we all finally find out what happened to all these people
when they disappeared...maybe reappeared back home, wherever that was,
or something).
Dmcquickly
I think when they are redeemed, they will die. I have a feeling the Marshall
was struggling with his personal demons over his relationship with Kate
and once he "let it go", he was able to move on.
This is why I think we'll see the death of one major character before
the season ends. Personally I'm betting on Sawyer because he seems to
have quite a few unresolved issues battling in that convoluted personality
of his. But because I've seen such hints of bravery within his character,
I think once he makes a personal sacrifice, his character will find "redemption."
But I think there is far more happening on the island than just this.
It is an island of possibility, a way station, a treasure chest, a prison,
a zoo, a sanctuary, a collecting vessel for the unusual and the unexplained
and a gateway between reality and unreality. But I think in the case of
the Lost ones, they are "prisoners of their own device."
And I still think the Black Rock is the "passage back to the place
I was before." Unfortunately "you can check out anytime you
like, but you can never leave."
JacksGirlfriend
Jack's Girlfriend: You ARE in too deep! Ha, ha....you have gone into the
next realm! But...that is not a bad thing!!
Ha, ha....ccc
cccourt
CC: Just trying to make sense of it from all perspectives. And make things
more interesting.
And just for the record (to those that follow the "they can't be
dead" line of thought) - I don't think they're dead - I think they
would have been dead if they hadn't landed where they did. In a triangle
when they went through a rip in time and space. So they're really quite
lucky in the scheme of things.
JacksGirlfriend
Prisoners of their own device?
Are they there because they have to be there, to assuage their guilt or
do they want to be there?
feenie1010
Have to be, Feenie. Who'd want to be there?
Jacksgirlfriend is onto something with her thoughts there...the variety
of objectives and purposes this Island serves. But it wouldn't make sense
(even in tv-land) for this to be some nebulous catch-all. So what's the
unifying thing behind all that?
Dmcquickly
A triangle. A rip. A different place. A melting pot of every person, place
and thing that's ever been "lost."
JacksGirlfriend
Wow, Jacksgirl, you just blew my mind with that thought. Very cool!
Quote:
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I think once he makes a personal sacrifice, his character will find "redemption."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So Kate has already done several potentiallly self-sacrificing things,
and she's still around. But then, I guess maybe selfishness isn't her
'issue'.. hmmmmm....
Woodnymph12
There has to be something she's holding back and won't admit, even to
herself.
JacksGirlfriend
Maybe in order to find redemption, these characters have to die? They
each feel that whatever they have done is so bad that they cannot forgive
themselves unless they sacrifice their lives to save others.
My issue with this is that it would suck for the last person left alive,
with nobody to protect or for whom to sacrifice. And much as I love the
angst-ridden possibilities there, watching one guy (because in my mind
it will always be Locke) mope around an island episode after episode wouldn't
be riveting television. Not a bad way to end the whole shebang: The camera
pulls back on the last doomed survivor, back out of the jungle, back into
the clouds, while the character acknowledges his doom in a voiceover.
railwaymadness
Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So Kate has already done several potentiallly self-sacrificing things,
and she's still around. But then, I guess maybe selfishness isn't her
'issue'.. hmmmmm....
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think her issue is trust. Maybe something bad happened because
she didn't trust someone that deserved it?
So if they die once they've been redeemed, what redeemed the pilot?
I almost forgot! What about the guy that gets sucked into the engine at
the beginning of the pilot?
kat
Well, as far as the pilot goes, he obviously knew he'd made a huge mistake
(see "Worst Flight Crew Ever" - cute). But he hung in long enough
to give the survivors as much information as he could. I would view his
redemption as admitting he'd made a mistake and finishing his duties as
the "leader" up to that point. He offered as much help as he
possibly could. He explained the flight, the course changes and told them
about the transceiver. Then of course his luck ran out - or he had fulfilled
his purpose and had done as much as he could for them.
The guy sucked into the engine - I really haven't a clue. We never knew
him. It's possible he wasn't supposed to be there in the first place.
JacksGirlfriend
The jet engine guy could be to show us that even though these people are
being given the chance to redeem themselves, it is still possible for
them to snuff it without achieving redemption. They can squander this
opportunity.
railwaymadness
I've had another thought about this theory that I'd like your thoughts
on...
In the crash, the marshal was impaled and didn't die. Then he was shot
and didn't die. Then Jack went in and he did die. We don't really know
what happened between the marshal and Jack. Maybe Jack didn't kill him.
Maybe something happened between them (a confession?) that allowed the
marshal to be redeemed and therefore die?
kat
Oh, yes, I think it took a lot to kill the marshall and he was determined
to hang in there for quite awhile. But I do think that when he and Kate
were talking, they some how made peace with one another. Eventually we'll
find out what happened between them (very personal as well as professional
I think), what went wrong and why he was able to forgive or apologize.
JacksGirlfriend
If this theory of redemption is true, then Jacksgirl probably has the
Kate/Marshall scenario right. Seeing that discussion, we might jump to
this conclusion, so if this redemption grounding is correct, then the
writers had a purpose in not showing it yet. Viewers might start putting
it all together quickly.
Dmcquickly
Is see this post is allowing the purgatory theory now...
isnt it purgatory then ?
yung23
Hmm... insightful theory. I am totally buying the "triangle bit."
Strangely, it reminds me of the pyramids (of Giza) mathematically, scientifically,
astronomically... beyond their time!
But I'll still go with the Philli experiment until I know this show enough
to ground my own.
Myzty