Be not afeard; the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices
That, if I then had waked after long sleep,
Will make me sleep again: and then, in dreaming,
The clouds methought would open and show riches
Ready to drop upon me that, when I waked,
I cried to dream again.
The Tempest. Act iii. Sc. 2

Dreamtime 2

Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime

Much of the dreamtime "mythology" features both good and evil spirits taking the form of large monsters and such creatures, which is supported by the presence of the monster on the island.


I do agree with much of what has been proposed here under the dreamtime concept, and are not arguing the notable ties in the show to the concept, but I'm dubious as to the relevance to any of the survivors bar Locke. The things we know are that he was open to the concept of a spiritual experience, along with the common belief that a miraculous occurence such as regaining the ability to walk leaving someone in a more spiritual state of being following the event is driving Locke towards a spiritual interpretation of the events of the island. He is thus in turn perhaps conveying these opinions on to others.


While this is all well and good he was not looking (in my opinion) at the walkabout through the aboriginal viewpoint of being classically spiritual, he saw it more of a chance to take a physical challenge to prove to himself that he is physically capable, as much as mentally capable of facing an adventure. It is through reaffirming to himself his physical capabilty that I believe he hoped to gain some sort of spiritual benefit, and the walkabout was just a convenient device for him to use to achieve this. I also think that the link that the plane took off from australia alone is insufficient to establish the dreamtime concept.


For these reasons I don't see there being enough of a link to the dreamtime concept to use it as the entire basis for the show. I like the concept, but don't think there is nearly a strong enough case for this to be the actual caper.


Just a quick edit - the walkabout in my opinion is introduced into the plotline just to have a survival guy on the plane for such requirements as hunting etc. and probably doesn't have any direct spiritual meaning.


character

Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime

Character,
You are saying that a man would try to prove himself physically in a walkabout. He could prove himself physical in a Marathon, or hike. In fact I'm sure there are very strenuous hikes that take place in the U.S. he could have gone on to prove himself physically. He would have not said it was his Destiny if he wanted to prove himself physically. The only reason to go on a walkabout is to go on a spiritual journey. That is like saying a person takes peyote to prove themselves physically. Btw peyote is a hallucinogen used by American Indians to go on a similar walkabout experience.

Gambit980

Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime

Agreed.


Locke himself states in "Walkabout":


" a Walkabout is a journey of spiritual renewal, where one derives strength from the earth. And becomes inseparable from it..."


While I agree that Locke's motives might be to "prove" his worth -- he was not going there to prove it as a physical challenge but as a mental/spiritual one.


I will also add that the recent episodes have done very little to prove this theory... at the same time it has done nothing to disprove it...


Gambit, you mentioned peyote... Taking peyote is indeed a very special psychic/psyche challenge that is usually administered by a wise man/leader to younger inexperienced initiates... Seems to be what Locke did to Boone with his hallucinigenic pudding...


Interesting.


purrkins

Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime

I just wanted to add a slightly subtle thing.


I don't think the point of going on a walkabout is to complete a physical challenge.


I think superficially, it would help to have some basic survival skills and be in good physical and mental shape. But more importantly, I think the point of it is to come out the other end a changed person: like a shift in consciousness, or spiritual transcendence.


Let's say you survived the walkabout, but ended it the same person as when you started, then it wasn't really a walkabout - it was a walk.
----

And in response to Purrkins, I agree it's been awhile since this theory has been illustrated. From memory, I think the last was Claire's vision in her dream of Locke with the tarot cards; and possibly Sawyer's interaction with the Boar.


sawyerhasbestlines

Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime

you guys are missing my point about locke (which is no doubt due to my terrible explanation on my point of view ... sorry about that). The point I was trying to make is that at some point Locke was no doubt in the military, or a survival nut, or something along those lines. These skills he formerly had have been taken away with his "condition" putting him into the wheelchair. People with cripling injuries often set themselves challenges to test their remaining physical ability and mental fortitude to reaffirm to themselves that they are still the same person now as they were when they were able-bodied. I think the walkabout acts for locke as such a test so that he may reaffirm himself spiritually. Once again I maintain that the walkabout concept is only there to explain a survival nut a) being in australia and b) explain why he was flying from sydney to LA. Hence the reasons Locke would have to complete a physical challenge are not physical at all and this would tie in nicely with the whole spiritual renewal concept of the walkabout.


While I like the idea of the whole show fitting to the dreamtime ideology, the point I'm trying to make is that I can't see enough evidence to make it happen and I think you're really reaching to make your point. If it was to form the basis for the show there would be more than a flashback in 1 episode mentioning a walkabout. I think the spiritual ties of the show are on a much more general concept personally as I haven't seen anything which can be explained by dreamtime theories, and none of the other vast array of spiritual and religeous beliefs out there.

character

Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime

'm not sure about Lost fitting exactly in with the Dreamtime. But it's an intriguing idea, nonetheless; it's the exchange of ideas that's important, for me. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers used some ideas from aboriginal culture in the mix of the supernatural elements on the show.


As far as Locke goes, I think he could be military (based on the flag and paraphernalia in his apt.) and he certainly has some survivalist skills. However, I still have a hard time reconciling a military Locke with the Locke who was a lonely and abandoned/orphaned child, working in that office, playing at war, blurring the line between phone sex and a relationship, and longing for a destiny that eluded him.


In any case, I was looking for something about weather prediction trying to understand how Locke might be able to figure out that it would rain down to the minute. From what I read it doesn't seem possible. But in that search I found a site that talked about shamanism. Trinobobina talked about shamanism earlier in the thread, and SHBL has talked about Locke as the Magician in the tarot, so I thought I would add a couple of things that reminded me of Locke:


A shaman is a person who moves between the natural world and the spirit world – who gains power in the spirit world and brings it back to use in the "concrete here-and-now tasks like healing, counseling, art, and restoration of community harmony... The shaman is not a saint, but a conduit, an ambassador, a go-between familiar with the interior polarities, bright and dark, that generate power.” I like the idea that the shaman is not a saint. It’s easier to see Locke in a more down to earth role where his motives can be questioned, or where he makes mistakes. He seems like more of a meat and potatoes kind of spiritual leader.


The article also talks about the shaman as having a calling and states that “The call often comes in the form of a mental or bodily crisis incurable by normal methods... the initiate must cure himself. During this process, the cure symbolizes a kind of death, particularly the death of a part of himself the initiate tended to identify with.” I can see a parallel with Locke in that he was only cured after the crash -- “a kind of death.” Having a calling fits in with the idea that Locke has of his Destiny. He also seems quite different than he was in his previous life. If there's any validity to the idea of Locke as a sort of Shaman, I wonder if his old self is going to come into conflict with his new island-self.


Also from the article, there are recurring themes in the life a shaman that seem to pertain to Locke:


- Lifelong sense of oneself as different; inability to fit in completely; an intuitive or spiritual take on life that feels more intrinsic than learned.


- Chosen by the shamanic call rather than choosing it, the call manifesting as a life-altering event of intense personal meaning and numinosity


- Long spell of physical or psychological illness incurable by traditional methods: if the potential shaman can heal himself by reaching far enough into himself, he has passed the real initiation, whatever minor ones he undergoes later.


- Tattooing, piercing, scarification, or other kinds of marking may signify a key life lesson, healing or initiation.


I'm not sure if the writers are really using these shamanistic elements as a template for Locke, but I thought it was interesting. You can read the article here.

spooky

Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime

Spooky,
I just posted something about the weather prediction here.


Sorry, I didn't realize you were also looking into this.

Coyote1066

Re: Aboriginal Dreamtime


I don't think Dreamtime explains Lost, but clearly Locke sent Boone into Dreamtime in "Hearts and Minds." In my opinion, Locke was transformed into an aboriginal Spirit Guide during the crash. No amount of training or studying can explain his uncanny if not magical skills. How did he become skilled parenting, for instance?

LostinWilderness

drabauer