Be not afeard; the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices
That, if I then had waked after long sleep,
Will make me sleep again: and then, in dreaming,
The clouds methought would open and show riches
Ready to drop upon me that, when I waked,
I cried to dream again.
The Tempest. Act iii. Sc. 2
Apologies if this has been brought up yet. I believe the people on the plane have somehow entered the Dreamtime. In the Dreamtime it is theorized that a person is who his potential is. Hence why Locke told Walt's dad that he was trying to help him reach his potential. Another thing is the Dreamtime could be seen as being fueled by Will. This is how Jack was able to bring Charlie back to life, through sheer will. If he had given up hope for even a second, Charlie would have died. Look at the people on the Island, the strong ones have left who they were in the real world behind, and have been transformed(Charlie's episode, or Locke's , or Boones are good examples of this.) The weak people have a hard time letting go of who they were in the past, so they since they have that perception of themselves it sticks. Let me know what you think.
george242
YES, YES, YES! I have been meaning to bring this concept up but keep forgetting about it! Read this well folks. Locke was on his way to a Walkabout. This would explain why the writers say "don't rule out magic". Aboriginal religion involves patching space time reality holes and equations so complex that anthropologists had to use COMPUTERS to do the calculations the Aborigines were doing in their heads.
That's 100,000,000 points for you George.
I'm NOT Chuck the Extra, but I do approve this message.
Wynter Zera
Hmmm... This is an interesting theory. A quick Google search and I found this creation myth... Some striking parallels.
While this is not my favorite theory out there, it has some strong potential.
I will keep my mind open to this theory. Undoubtedly the writers are familiar
with this story...
I have cut and pasted the Aboriginal Creation Myth here and have bolded
some interesting passages:
Baiame and Creation
An Australian Aboriginal Legend
And again like the Lord God, Baiame walked on the earth he had made, among
the plants and animals, and created man and woman to rule over them. He
fashioned them from the dust of the ridges, and said,
'These are the plants you shall eat - these and these, but not the animals
I have created.'
Having set them in a good place, the All-Father departed.
To the first man and woman, children were born and to them in turn children
who enjoyed the work of the hands of Baiame. His world had begun to be
populated, and men and women praised Baiame for providing for
all their needs. Sun and rain brought life to the plants that
provided their sustenance.
All was well in the world they had received from the bountiful provider,
until a year when the rain ceased to fall. There was little water. The
flowers failed to fruit, leaves fell from the dry, withered stems, and
there was hunger in the land--a new and terrifying experience for men,
women, and little children who had never lacked for food and drink.
In desperation a man killed some of the forbidden animals, and shared
the kangaroo-rats he had caught with his wife. They offered some of the
flesh to one of their friends but, remembering Baiame's prohibition, he
refused it. The man was ill with hunger. They did their best to persuade
him to eat, but he remained steadfast in his refusal. At length, wearying
of their importunity, he staggered to his feet, turning his back on the
tempting food, and walked away.
Shrugging their shoulders, the husband and wife went on with their meal.
Once they were satisfied, they thought again of their friend and wondered
whether they could persuade him to eat. Taking the remains of the meal
with them, they followed his trail. It led across a broad plain and disappeared
at the edge of a river. They wondered how he had crossed it and, more
importantly, how they themselves could cross. In spite of the fact that
it had dwindled in size, owing to the prolonged drought, it was running
too swiftly for them to wade or swim.
They could see him, some little distance away on the farther side, lying
at the foot of a tall gum tree. They were on the point of turning back
when they saw a coal-black figure, half man half beast, dropping from
the branches of the tree and stooping over the man who was lying there.
They shouted a warning, but were too far away for him to hear, even if
he were awake. The black monster picked up the inert body, carried
it up into the branches and disappeared. They could only think that the
tree trunk was hollow and that the monster had retreated to its home with
his lifeless burden.
One event succeeded another with bewildering rapidity. A puff
of smoke billowed from the tree. The two frightened observers heard a
rending sound as the tree lifted itself from the ground, its roots snapping
one by one, and soared across the river, rising as it took a course to
the south. As it passed by they had a momentary glimpse of two large,
glaring eyes within its shadow, and two white cockatoos with frantically
flapping wings, trying to catch up with the flying tree, straining to
reach the shelter of its branches.
Within minutes the tree, the cockatoos, and the glaring eyes had dwindled
to a speck, far to the south, far above their heads.
For the first time since creation, death had come to one of the men whom
Baiame had created, for the monster within the tree trunk was Yowee, the
Spirit of Death.
In the desolation of a drought-stricken world, all living things mourned
because a man who was alive was now as dead as the kangaroo-rats that
had been killed for food.
Baiame's intention for the men and animals he loved had been thwarted.
'The swamp oak trees sighed incessantly, the gum trees shed tears of blood,
which crystallised as red gum,' wrote Roland Robinson, in relating this
legend of the Kamilroi tribe in his book Wandjina. 'To this day,' he continued,
'to the tribes of that part is the Southern Cross known as "Yaraandoo"--the
place of the White Gum tree--and the Pointers as "Mouyi", the
white cockatoos.'
It was a sad conclusion to the hopes of a world in the making, but the
bright cross of the Southern Cross is a sign to men that there is a place
for them in the limitless regions of space, the home of the All-Father
himself, and that beyond death lies a new creation.
Again, found on Google...
The aboriginal tribe, the Bad, of the West Kimberly area, Western Australia,
revered "a supreme being" called Djamar. According to
tradition he manifested in a manner highly suggestive of "something"
landing and leaving behind a physical record. Of course the reverse can
argued. That is that the aborigines invested supernatural dimensions into
many prosaic features of the natural landscape.
The young initiates of the tribe were led to the stony bed of a creek
and were shown the holes where Djamar had planted his "bullroarer".
In aboriginal lore the sound of the "bullroarer" -- a roaring
wind noise -- symbolised the approach of the god. The original accounts
indicate that Djamar's bullroar or "galuguru" are representations
of the "being" itself. According to E.A. Worms:
"Earnestly the old men impress on the youths the terrible force of
the original tjurunga, by pointing out the baldness of the surrounding
hills and the damaged bark of the trees struck by Djamar when he whirled
the bull-roarer. It smashed the rocks of the foreshore."
After the manifestation of Djamar, which left behind all this damage,
the supreme being himself ascended once again into the sky with his "tjurunga".
Such accounts lost in prehistory are full of emotive similarities but
beyond that they are only diverting tales of the Australian aboriginal
'dreamtime'. [2]
According to Bundjalung tribal tradition, Salty Lagoon, north of the Broadwater
National Park, near Evans Head, on the NSW north coast, was home to a
female ancestral being called Gaungan. Described as "tall and slim,
with long flowing hair, beautiful hands and long fingernails," when
she moved between Salty Lagoon and Wardell, Gaungan often appeared as
a shining light. The legends indicate she would try to seduce men into
the sea or the lagoon. Tradition has it that Gaungan flew from
Woodenbong, landed on a beach near Salty Lagoon and turned into a black
rock.
purrkins
Thanks, I've been thinking about this since the very first show, what with their flight originating from Australia, and Locke's attempted Walkabout. The other thing that I think is interesting is the talk about the Black Rock. A lot of Aborigines claim that reality(our reality) is weak in certain spots, and that Ayers Rock in Australia is one such place where people can access Dreamtime. Maybe the black rock on the island is the nexus point to an exit back into our Reality.
george242
You might be onto something... I will let you make your own connections...
Here is some more information on Uluru (Ayers Rock)
Ayers Rock is a magnetic mound large - but not unlike
Silbury Hill in England. It is located on a major planetary grid
point much like the Great Pyramid in Egypt.
It is the world's largest monolith rising 318m above the desert floor
with a circumference of 8 km. It is considered once of the great wonders
of the world. It is located in the Kata Tjuta National Park, which is
owned and run by the local Aboriginals. The Australian government handed
ownership of the land back to the Aboriginals some years ago.
The Rock is arkose, a course-grained sandstone rich in feldspar at least
2.5 km thick. Uplifting and folding between 400-300 mya turned the sedimentary
layers nearly 90 degrees to their present position. The surface has then
been eroded.
Depending on the time of day and the atmospheric conditions, the rock
can dramatically change color, anything from blue to glowing red! Many
avid photographers set up for days and record the many changing colors
of Uluru.
Ayers Rock was named for the Premier of South Australia, Sir Henry Ayers.
It extends down over 3 and a half miles beneath the surface.
Approximately 500 million years ago it was part of the ocean floor at
the center of Australia. Some believe that there is a light source
emanating at various times of the year. [?????]
The Aborigines believe that there it is hollow below ground, and
that there is an energy source that they call 'Tjukurpa' the 'dream time'.
The term Tjukurpa is also used to refer to the record of all activities
of a particular ancestral being from the very beginning of his or her
travels to their end. Anangu know that the area around Ayers Rock (Mount
Uluru) is inhabited by dozens of ancestral beings whose activities are
recorded at many separate sites. At each site, the events that took place
can be recounted, whether those events were of significance or whether
the ancestral being just rested at a certain place before going on.
Usually, there is a physical feature of some form at each ancestral site
which represents both the activities of the ancestral being at the time
of its formation and the living presence of Tjukurpa within that physical
feature today. For the Australian Aboriginal people, that physical feature,
whatever its form or appearance, animate or inanimate, is the Tjukurpa.
It may be a rock, a sand hill, a grove of trees, a cave. For all of these,
the creative essence remains forever within the physical form or appearance.
Around Ayers Rock (Mount Uluru) there are many examples of ancestral sites.
The Anangu explanations of these sites and of the formation of Ayers Rock
(Mount Uluru) itself derive from the Tjukurpa. Most of these explanations
are in the realm of secret information and are not disclosed to Piranypa,
the non-Aborigines.
'The Dreaming' is not a creation myth, per se, but a myth of formation.
The world existed, but was featureless. Giant semi-human beings, resembling
plants or animals, rose up from the plains where they had been slumbering
for countless ages.
These ancient heroes roamed the land aimlessly. As they wandered
around, they carried out the tasks that the present Aborigines do today
including camping, making fires, digging for water, fighting each other,
and performing ceremonies. When the heroes became tired of doing these
things, Dreamtime came to an end.
Wherever the creators had been active, some form of natural feature now
marks the place. The creators made everything with which the aborigines
are in daily contact and from which they gain their living. The
heroes also established laws that govern all aspects, both secular and
sacred, of the tribes.
There are many words that are translated into 'the Dreaming.' Altijiranga,
wongar, djugurba, and bugari are some examples. All the words for 'the
dreaming' refer to virtually 'the same set of circumstances and phenomena'
(Berndt 7).
The meanings of these words are distinct, but they all have connected
meanings. First, 'the dreaming' is a myth of the shaping of the
world. Second, it is an illustration of the power of the ancestors. Third,
it is a general way of life, or law. Lastly, it is a way in which an Aboriginal
is connected to particular sites.
Dreamtime was in the past, but it is the Aborigines present religion and
culture. The saying, 'As it was done in the Dreamtime, so it must be done
today,' dominates all aspects of aboriginal behavior. Because of their
beliefs in 'the dreaming,' ceremonies and rituals are held, stories are
told, pictures are drawn, and daily life is defined
purrkins
I LOVE this thread -- I've always felt this follows mythology/philosophical roots. If you get a chance, check out my "parallel myths" connection in the literature archives.
trinabobina
Quote:
Giant semi-human beings, resembling plants or animals, rose up from the
plains where they had been slumbering for countless ages.
Could that mean that the "monster" could possibly
be one of these giant semi-humans, and possibly resemble plants such as
trees. Because if so that would validate my early theory that the "monster"
is the trees themselves, not something moving the trees. Anyway even if
not, this is still one of the more interesting theories I have seen out
there. Good job.
charzer0
Just a quick note--there was a great post on this weeks ago that's long since disappeared. So I am VERY glad--along with Wynter Zera, that you've reintroduced it George. Few added to it the first time around, but I think there is a reason, as Wynter says, that we have Walkabout, Australia, dreams, vision quests, et al.
drabauer