Full fathom five thy father lies;
  Of his bones are coral made;
Those are pearls that were his eyes:
  Nothing of him that doth fade
But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange.
The Tempest. Act i. Sc. 2

Science:

Physics of the plane crash

physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theory

The plane crash bothered me because the layout of the whole thing just isn't possible. But it occurred to me that a more rational explanation is available and I just didn't see it because of an assumption I made based on the position of the fuselage, which is facing away from the sea. Using this assumption I thought the plane came in from the ocean, which made the debris spread and lack of skid marks entirely unbelieveable. Also, if the nose of the plane had ripped off in flight it would've dropped and fallen behind the fuselage, putting it somewhere in the ocean rather than farther inland.


Silly me, I should've worked from the position of the nose and not the orientation of the fuselage. Since the nose ripped off prior to the crash it must have hit the island first; it would've dropped down and behind the fuselage, landing in the jungle - but not from terribly high up, else it would've sunk into the mud and the pilot would be human jelly. Shortly thereafter the fuselage would've crashed onto the beach. Which means that the plane didn't come in from the ocean like I thought, but *was already over the island when it broke up*. It wasn't some weirdly unbelievable bending of the laws of physics that left the nose *ahead* of the fuselage; the nose is *behind* the fuselage, as it should be. In fact, it's sheer luck the fuselage didn't travel a couple hundred extra feet, drop into the ocean, and drown all of our castaways.
The only question at that point is: why is the fuselage facing inland? Actually, that's an easy one: with no tail and no nose to control flight, the fuselage would most likely have started to spin in circles. When it slammed into the beach it would've spun a few times, then stopped - and the fuselage could've been facing in any direction. If this is the case then the unusual scattering of the wreckage makes sense (bits of the plane being thrown off as it spun), as well as the fact that there aren't any skid marks. But there is quite a bit of disturbed sand in front of the fuselage and very little behind it, which is consistent with the fuselage hitting the ground spinning, then slowing to a stop just short of the ocean.


Although the wreckage doesn't quite make as much sense as it should, everything else now fits into place. The plane started breaking apart over the island, the nose dropped into it's current position, and moments later the spinning fuselage crashed onto the beach, miraculously clearing the trees and at the same time avoiding a dunking in the ocean. It also explains how Charlie ended up in the jungle (he got thrown from the fuselage just before it crashed on the beach). If this is true then there's a good chance that the tail section is farther inland; the producers said that the island is huge and no plane could stay up in the air very long missing the tail and the back third of the fuselage.


I know, this is obsessive, but the fact that the plane crash didn't make any sense bothered me, and now I've resolved it. It isn't at all anomalous anymore.


Now for the bizarre theory....


I have no idea why I thought of this. I can't think of a single thing in "Lost" which lends any credence at all to this line of thinking. But something nagged me to post it, so here it is in all of its lunatic glory.


A long time ago there was a hoax called "The Philadelphia Experiment". This experiment never happened; it's been thoroughly debunked and there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the experiment itself ever took place, under any circumstances. But conspiracy theorists used to love it, probably because it was so very science fantasy-ish.
Essentially the idea was that in WW2 a destroyer was refitted with some electromagnetic field producing gizmos in an attempt to make the ship invisible to radar. When the switch was flipped the ship itself became invisible *and disappeared from it's anchoring point*. Some moments later it appeared miles away, then disappeared again, then reappeared at anchor. When boarded it was found that the crew was either sick, or insane, or just plain missing. The more extreme conspiracy theories speculate that the ship was 'somewhere else' between teleportation events.


Pretty whacked, eh? Well now, let's assume for a moment that our errant plane entered French Polynesia and flew over an island where the French are conducting secret tests a la "The Philadelphia Experiment". They had no radio, remember? No way to pick up a warn-off signal. The plane got caught in the generated field, was severely damaged, and transported Bermuda Triangle-style to some alternate Earth. Because it moved out of the field (being a plane) it couldn't reappear on our Earth when the field was turned off - it was already out of range of the anomaly. Heck, the French might even have targeted the commercial airliner on purpose, for all we know.


Now skip back 16 years and 5 months. Here the French are playing with their new field generator and not quite sure what the blazes it does or where things go when the field is on. So they decide to send an expedition into the field, let them check things out, then pull the expedition back. But the expedition gets stranded in alternate-Earth land when it moves out of range of the anomaly and doesn't manage to get back to it before it's turned off. Perhaps the expedition appeared near some hostile, man-eating creature and had to make a run for it? And since their control of the field generator is inexact the stranded team can't know when or where the anomaly will appear, so it's quite unlikely that even a concerted effort by the French government at a 'rescue' will drop the anomaly within sight of their lost team.
Being a governmental expedition with the best equipment available to them, it's much more likely that they'll have some kind of fall-back equipment to warn future teams (if any) of danger. Perhaps a self-enclosed transmitter that runs off a nuclear pile? The French, after all, have the bomb, so making a pile-run transmitter is a walk in the park for them. One 16-year-old impossible transmitter now explained.


Between 1988 and 2004 the French continue to play with their new toy, sometimes inadvertently catching other ships and planes in the general vicinity and sending them off to Earth 2. They probably don't even know they're doing it; or perhaps they don't care. But it's how our heroes got to their new home, and how the French got there before them, and why the plane broke apart so suddenly over French Polynesia, and why the bloody radio can last for 16 years on a single power source.


Or not. I think this is the craziest, most unsupportable theory yet. But something about the show made me think "Philadelphia Experiment" even though I haven't spent a neuron on that hoax in more than twenty years. And this is what I came up with.


More speculative fodder for the rumor mill!


maxpublic


Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


I'd been thinking of the crash too and was thinking in terms of them coming in from the ocean. But after seeing the nose sticking up instead of buried in the mud it hit me as wrong. I realized too that it had to have been coming from the opposite direction. I'm glad you explained though because I never could have.


I saw the Philadelphia Experiment years ago too. It was an interesting concept at the time and one they could be using here. But I have a couple reasons why I don't think so (and why I don't want it).


First: It limits the time span. We'll only be able to see things, people and animals that have existed in the last 16 years. I'm hoping to see alot of things from other times and other places. I want to see serious culture clashes and unusual pairings when the survivors meet others. I want them to come across things they can't explain, maybe rock carvings that looked like they were carved yesterday, extinct animals and ancient artifacts that look brand new. I want submarines and planes, Viking warships and Phoenician galleys. I'd even like to see Noah's Ark and early humans (I still think they could have gotten the pilot out of the tree).


Second: I want surprises, the polar bear being one. I know you think it was on a cargo ship but I want it to be from elsewhere. I'm still going with my gateway theory here. A gateway has so many more possibilities and I'm still not giving up on my time loop theory either.


Third: I want this show to be more than "science gone wrong". I want this to be a naturally occuring anomoly and not something cooked up by the French. Oh, I think they were there for some sort of reason, but not this one.


What can I say? I like mystery.


JacksGirl


P.S. Max - After you read this, check out Theories on French Distress Call


JacksGirlfriend

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


Okay...you folks are WAY smarter than I am. I am still wondering when they will address the need for fresh water. They wasted that nice rain by not setting open, empty vessels out.


Next: JJ Abrams?? Do you remember season 2 of Alias? They just kept getting stranger and stranger. Almost didn't make any sense. No...they made absolutely no sense. But he brought it back together.


And Last: JJ Abrams--you guys are doing his work for him! Ha, ha....your story ideas and directions are great!


cccourt

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


Great theory... but how does a polar bear fit in?


Latuki Max

SEPARATED PLANE


***with no tail and no nose to control flight, the fuselage would most likely have started to spin in circles.***


There is a historical record of a plane breaking up: TWA 800.


The nose was blown away and fell down into the water. But, the islands crash had the nose pointing upwards...


The tail would have the third engine and its weight would of sank it sooner. The fuselage with the wings would of traveled the farthest, but not in circles.


As soon as the nose and tail were separated, it would slow and dive downwards.


The tail separation could of come from to abrupt a pull out from the dive. But, as to what would of caused the nose separation, other than physical contact, would be an explosion similar to TWA 800.


WINDMILLBOOKS

Re: SEPARATED PLANE


It actually could spin in circles, if both nose and tail were separated. Without any control over the flaps, no stabilization, and the inability to regulate engine output (which would probably be varying rather wildly at this point) the fuselage could indeed start to spin in circles. This sometimes happens with fully intact planes and is relatively difficult to recover from.


In any event it would only have to spin a few times. It would only have the opportunity to spin a few times when you take into account the distance between the nose and the fuselage.


Edit: it *had* to spin around, in order to get the fuselage facing in the opposite direction of it's flight path. And note that the fuselage didn't dip and fall at an angle, but landed flat on the beach.


maxpublic

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


I've been wondering something relating to the "physics" of the crash.


What I found strange was there were no survivors in the cockpit section given that it was "upright". The beach section has wreckage bits everywhere and explosions but the cockpit section seemed mostly intact, yet no survivors. All the bodies were sitting perfectly fine (apart from being dead of course ) with seat-belts on as Jack, Kate, & Charlie crawled by. After Jack revived the pilot and gave him some water, he was able to walk around and put his head through the window so, apart from bad judgment regarding putting his upper body outside when something was "roaring", he apparently survived the crash not too seriously injured.


I also started to think it strange that certain people weren't in that part of the plane. I assume the passengers in the cockpit section were in 1st Class which is at the front of planes. Charlie not being in 1st class I suppose is easily explainable, although a "rock star", he did say something about Driveshaft starting to make a comeback so they probably weren't at the top of their financial status... but Jack is a doctor and I'd be inclined to think would travel 1st class.


There is one thing though, Shannon says to her brother Boone (while starring at one of the bodies) "I think thats the man who wouldn't lets us have our seats in 1st class". At first I thought she was referring to an over booking situation where the deceased man would not give up the first class seat so Shannon and Boone could both sit in first class (and in order to sit together had to be in Business class) but, if so, why is his body there on the beach and not at the cockpit area? I suppose an explanation is that the dead man might have been an airline employee who wouldn't allow Shannon and Boone into 1st class for some unknown reason.


Well I seem to be rambling on but did anyone else find it strange that given the looks of the cockpit section there were no survivors there? Is anyone else wondering if the fact no 1st class passengers survived is significant? I think I've read that terrorist usually go first class so to be closest to the cockpit as possible. Or then again, did the plane break amid 1st class, and the survivors from 1st class land on the beach with the rest?


Why its Mr U

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


I thought the man who "didn't let them have their seats" was wearing a blue shirt, IE, a flight attendant. Who could have ended up anywhere in the plane when it was bouncing around.


Frogs Taste Nasty

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


I assumed the man Shannon was referring to was one of the flight attendants, in which case he could have been anywhere on the plane.


I don't think Jack was in first class because for some reason I don't think Jack's a "real" doctor any more. I'm wondering why he is was in Australia in the first place - maybe trying to get licensed there? I think he was a doctor, but something happened and he's lost his license and now has a juicy secret. So... no first class for Jack.


The other passengers - there didn't seem to be that many - were the oxygen masks hanging down? I didn't really notice. Maybe they failed. Maybe the impact broke a great many necks and the pilot was just lucky because he had a different kind of seat. And why did the bodies of the navigator, co-pilot, etc. just roll out of the cockpit when Jack opened the door? Shouldn't they have been belted in? This implies they might have survived the crash but something happened very quickly and killed them. We really need to investigate those bodies. Get on that right now!


Gee, thanks so much for making me think. I'll never get off this computer today.


JacksGirlfriend

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


Well, evidentally the door to the cockpit wasn't developed in the United States. Aren't the cockpit doors supposed to be vertirually indistructable now because of 9/11?


I think the person that wouldn't let Shannon and Boone have their seats was the ticket agent and that Shannon just happens to be looking in whichever directions she's looking in. She's just thinking and staring.


jprez98

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


Hey Jen - I thought the same thing about the cockpit door, but they were on an Australian airliner, so I think it's okay as far as the story goes. Probably different manufacturing guidelines.


You could be right about Shannon. I just assumed it was the flight attendant that bumped them - maybe someone more important came on board, or someone with a special need etc. But she didn't necessarily have to be talking about the person she was staring at.


JacksGirlfriend

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


The real reason the pilot survived while everyone else in the forward section of the plane died was to give his brief speech on just how 'lost' they were, then get tragically eaten. :-)


I think we're supposed to chalk it down to pure luck. All the other first-class passengers died from impact trauma and the pilot was miraculously spared (as people sometimes are). So he had the best of luck in surviving the fall, and the worst of luck in getting snuffed five minutes after he woke up.


The gods do indeed love a practical joke....


maxpublic

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


I don't know why the people in the front section of the plane died, but (at one time) there was an explanation for why Jack wasn't in 1st class. In the earlier version of the pilot --the one that was on the internet since June-- Jack has a longer conversation with the flight attendant who gives him the vodka:

Quote:


Attendant: "I saw you when you got on. Giving up your 1st class seat to that older lady..."


Jack: "Oh, I wasn't being sweet. She guilted me into it. She was like 600 years old and said she's never flown before."


Woodnymph12

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


You guys make my head hurt.


JacksGirl - I had the same thought about Jack no longer being a doctor. And, like you, I'm also having difficulty remembering what is where. That's probably the biggest reason why I'm just reading now and not trying to post. I'm afraid my brain will explode. I'm enjoying your take on things though.


Uri the Sun Goddess

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


Thanks, Uri...


And Max... so very funny for the straight man in this comedy of errors. The pilot obviously had a much better seat to have survived, otherwise the navigator would have been left alive to tell the story. But you ignored the bigger question: why did they fall out of the door if they should have been buckled in? Something must have killed them.


JacksGirlfriend

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


My take on the crash is this. It looked like an explosion blew off the back portion of the plane, then it continued to break into two more parts, midsection that ended up on beach and the front which ended up inland. But the wings are where they would hold up the mid section longer (for flight) than the front? How could the front of the plane keep flying without wings? Just how far inland was the front? And one of the engines was still running on the beach. And those Pacific Islands are sooooo small it is "strange" that this particular plane would break apart over this particular island?

You can fly for hours and hours without seeing any island. It is almost like the crash was planned? By whom? And why?


wharf rat

Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


@Max
I told you they will eventually find the tail...


You won't convince me of something else!


Abraxas


Re: physics of the plane crash, and one really bizarre theor


Are you sure that the tail did not fall into the ocean? Along with some passengers of course....


wharf rat

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