Full fathom five thy father lies;
  Of his bones are coral made;
Those are pearls that were his eyes:
  Nothing of him that doth fade
But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange.
The Tempest. Act i. Sc. 2

Science:

Cloning

THEY ARE CLONES!! (my theory...)

A good twist would be that it's somebody's experiment. They have people who had a relative or loved one who passed away...and they wanted their loved ones cloned. So some scientist clones all these people on the plane, including the pilot and the plane crashed on the island. Some of the clones did not make it, but the ones that did have strange memories of what they think is their past lives--not realizing that they don't really exist like that anymore.


For instance, the guy in the wheelchair can walk now because the cloning can't re-create the situation of him being in a wheelchair--he just thought he couldn't walk and has been immobile by this fear.


The pregnant lady wanted a child before she died. She was able to fulfill her dream of being pregnant AFTER she got cloned.


The doctor was responsible for the death of a patient which led him to suicide, He's on the island to be a doctor again....but a respected one. He learns to do this on the island.


The English rocker dude, overdosed in real life. When he was cloned--he learns to kick his habit by taking a substitute drug. He is addicted to the substitute drug.


The fat guy died of Sloth and Gluttony. He now has to ration his food. He doesn't let food control him...by the end of the series..he will be replaced by Brad Pitt (OK, I'm just testing ya....not really)


The Arabic guy was killed in the war in the middle east. His family was rich and wanted to clone him so he can become the famous scientist he was destined to be.


The Brother and Sister are two Hollywood kids. The spoiled girl was kidnapped and her brother tried to save her but ended up shot by the kidnappers. Their parents paid a fortune to clone their only kids who once again "die" together. They will be closer and more appreciative of each other, and their parents will be proud.


The fugitive lady is an innocent victim of false identity and was framed for the murder of her rich husband. She is mortally injured while trying to escape and her father's last wish was to have his only daughter returned to him.
The father and son were the first family cloned in the U.S. the mother was cloned in Australia but due to a chemical imbalance the mother died shortly after reaching the age she actually died. The clone son and father were reunited and were returning to the U.S when tragedy struck. They get a second chance to be a family.They find out later that the mother was cloned twice and will be together again..


The Japanese couple are the the last descendants of the Royal Family in Japan. Anxious to have their royal line back , the Japanese cloned them after they were assassinated. The man learns to respect women and turns his back on tradition to gain happiness..but not before the woman experiences love on the island with someone else (can you guess who?) Hint* Young Hearts, Run Free, never get caught up, caught up like my man and meeeee..." -Romeo & Juliet 1996(?)


OK, pretty much have explanations for ALL of the characters but I'm tired now....plus I don't want to ruin ALL of it for you....


REMEMBER my CLONING THEORY.


This is a theory based on secret cloning experiments that happened during several years and by several countries. All have ties to Australia, France and the U.S.A.


The clones were ALL placed on a plane that was SABOTAGED to crash on an ISLAND where every life form is CLONED. They DO NOT KNOW THEY ARE CLONED and will soon come to realize this eventually by various occurrences on the island and through their own memory of their cloned life and the LIFE OF THE ORIGINAL person who was cloned.


You follow?


The experiement happened 16 years ago but they were no survivors. The last clone, a French doctor was rescued and help to re-create the experiment. She will mysteriously appear on the island, ala shipwrecked.


One by one they will come to grips with memory, past lives, and future. This ISLAND test is necessary for them to blend into the REAL WORLD when they are rescued. They will live a life different from the person they were cloned from and they live better, more fulfilled lives as clones.
Dang!


I'm good!!


xxandraxx


Re: THEY ARE CLONES!! (my theory...)


If they were clones, how would the survivors still have their memories?


awsecond

Re: THEY ARE CLONES!! (my theory...)

What Japanese couple?


Jin and Sun are Korean.


azteclady


Re: THEY ARE CLONES!! (my theory...)


They have memory. If you are cloned you have your own *new*memory and some of the memory of the person you were cloned from. *Scientific glitch...kinda like reincarnation...


That's what the scientists found out-- so now they have to fix that with the Island experiment.


Remember the cloning took place years ago...the exact age of each clone....they tried to improve their memory but the noticed a pattern of similarity...the same negative traits, same interests and they didn't want the same fate. The Island is there to help them overcome obstacles that may detriment them.


This is my theory.

Re: What Japanese couple?


They looked Japanese to me....well whatever. The KOREAN then.
You agree about my theory otherwise?


xxandraxx

Re: What Japanese couple?


Sorry, nope.


As far as I could tell, it's not based on science - and the producers/writers have said the show is based on science.


May I suggest, though, that you read some of the other theories put forth in this forum? You may find them entertaining and, in many cases, educational. I know I do!


azteclady

Re: Your theory


xxandraxx - I find your theory highly imaginative and entertaining. To me cloning is a "science", so it's within the realm of probability as an option, but I don't think it's happening here.


Quote:


they tried to improve their memory but the noticed a pattern of similarity...the same negative traits, same interests and they didn't want the same fate. The Island is there to help them overcome obstacles that may detriment them. Although I don't agree with your theory for what's happening on Lost, if I were you, I'd get started on a story or script right away.


JacksGirlfriend


Re: THEY ARE CLONES!! (my theory...)


JacksGirl,


I did not mean to imply that cloning is not a scientific reality (what was the name of that sheep? and then, there's the kitten... I need to find some links to post here).


However, the whole 'memory of past lives' part of this theory is not based on scientific evidence. That's what I don't buy.


My apologies if I came across b!itchy!


azteclady


Re: THEY ARE CLONES!! (my theory...)


Aztec: I don't think you came across that way at all. We all have different ideas and perceptions. To me, cloning is a science and any consequence of actually cloning a human would be "pseudo-science" (definitely wrong - but pseudo-science just the same). We don't know exactly what would happen so I think it's entirely possible it could happen to fit his/her theory. That's what science fiction and fantasy are all about - a wild offshoot of reality in which literally anything can happen.


I think the majority of the people on this board have thorough, well-thought out ideas and the guts to place them out there. I don't always agree with them, but it doesn't mean they're wrong. I'm sure there are some that think mine are totally off the deep end, but so far no one's actually come out and said that. Here's hoping they never do - I might cry... (no, not really, but you see what I mean...)


JacksGirlfriend

Cloning links


JacksGirl,


There, there! *pat in the back* No one would ever dare tell you that your theories are just... er...
Here are some of the links (and the sheep name was Dolly):


www.ornl.gov/sci/techreso...ning.shtml



science.howstuffworks.com/cloning.htm (this one has some really easy-to-get diagrams on the mechanics of cloning, and at the end lists more links, among them this one:


science.howstuffworks.com/human-cloning.htm


This next one is a list of links to articles in the New Scientist, dealing with cloning issues, from the mechanics to the ethics. One of this articles touches on the much contested, alleged "first cloned baby":


www.newscientist.com/hottopics/cloning/


I'm still looking for something that specifically addresses the question of memories 'inherited' by the cloned individual from the 'parent' or donor. I would still maintain that a cloned organism shares no memories with its donor - something about the brain shape, but I can't right now remember the phrasing in English.


xxandraxx,


I hope I haven't made you feel unwelcome here!


azteclady

Re: Cloning links


Maybe in this theory they don't inherit the actual memories so much as the predisposition to make the same kinds of mistakes based on inherent characteristics. It would be the old nature vs nurture question. Although I think environment plays a big role in how we develop, I also think you can't change some of the basic components of a person's intellect or personality. These might be part of who we are no matter what our circumstances in life. There are people who maintain positive outlooks in the worst circumstances. There are people who become depressed in the best. These are probably inherent characteristics of who they are.


Perhaps even cloned we are doomed to make the same mistakes in the right set of circumstances.


Quote:


There, there! *pat in the back* No one would ever dare tell you that your theories are just... er... I'll be the first to admit they are. I admire anyone who has proof to back up their claims. Me, I talk off the top of my head, no proof, no backup, no references. Just me - which is probably why I admire others that do the same. That's what it's all about to me - imagination.


But I do love the research, the "real" opinions and the amount of work put into responses. I hope everyone keeps it up so the lazy of the world (like me) can benefit.


JacksGirlfriend

Re: LAZY???


xxandraxx - you have to be more specific. We don't know who's supposed to answer or what we're answering for.


Thanks


JacksGirlfriend

Re: LAZY???


Sorry JacksGirlfriend. I lost my connection and I was editing my reply...didn't work so I will paste here *What did you mean by "are we supposed to answer here?)


Ok, JacksGirlfriend: GOOD POINTS!, and thanks for giving me a "suspension of disbelief" for my theory.


I'd like to add:


As far as we know "cloning of humans" has not yet been developed or researched. Sure they cloned a sheep and other animals but they cannot convey any memories or proof that they do not share other characteristics besides DNA etc.


It would be interesting to find out that scientists were secretly doing this only to learn that their "clones" began to inherit the characteristics, dreams, memory & other characteristics. What if some scientists said..."let's change that!" and developed another program to severely ALTER their memories, character, and change their lives. What if this "experiment" is a "staged plane crash" where they learn to overcome these handicaps. (Remember they do not know they are CLONES of a person that lived before...) .


Now many people believe in re-incarnation..the believe that they were SOMEONE ELSE in a PAST LIFE. Would it be a twist on that you were THE SAME PERSON (DNA wise) in a PAST LIFE?


I"m not a scientist, or a scholar. Just a person who has a theory based on what I've watched on Lost. I don't feel the need to read other peoples theories and take from them ANY education whatsoever. To do that would "taint" my theory and it wouldn't be original.


I think we all have to think of the show as fantasy or "science-fiction" in a way. It is not a real life scenario for many reasons. It is a fictional story of a bunch of survivors on an island trying to get rescued. I think I'll start on that script now...thanx JacksGirlfriend (hope i got your name right....)


Does anyone else think that my theory is so far fetched? Let's assume everything DOES NOT go by the book and think OUTSIDE the box!


xxandraxx

Re: questions


Woah there...I love your theory! I bet everyone expected me to say that.


It checks out in most places. It really could be true. Quite cool. It would explain a lot. Let me name it:
- you said it yourself...Locke can walk again...that's an explanation why


- it explains why Rose might be delusional about her husband. Her memory kind of mixes up short und long term - due to some cloning error - and she really thinks she has a husband, although he wasn't cloned (for whatever reason or maybe she got false memories injected)


- Charlie's band might be super-popular, but except Kate noone on the island ever heard of them, because they simply don't have that memory


- it explains the mixture of the characters in general...there's every stereotype and lots of mysterious backgrounds


Sawyer could be explained when we know more about him.


What about the French woman? Why was she on the island over a decade ago? What is the monster? Is that connected or something else entirely?


Anyway, nice work.


Abraxas

Re: questions


Waiting to the Weird Al song "I think I'm a Clone now" to be in the credits.


MacLeod


Re: questions


Not to be a bore, but I really think the memory thing is a big hurdle. But I do definitely agree with the underlying assumption that no one really survived the crash. That's why I favor some kind of resurrection scenario.


awsecond

Re: questions


Can you please give us some detail on your resurrection theory?


I'd love to hear it.


Thanks!


xxandraxx

awsecond's resurrected theory


here's the link:
Resurrected


I believe this has also been discussed in other, longer threads...


azteclady


Re: awsecond's resurrected theory


Sorry for not pointing you there myself, xxandraxx--I didn't see your reply.
Truthfully, though, I'm starting to think you might be right about the cloning. It makes a lot of sense, and is more readily rooted in pseudo-science than my resurrection theory. Also, the memory hurdle is hardly insurmountable. Many works of sci fi (most recently Star Trek, the gold standard for pseudo science) have played fast and loose with memory where clones are concerned.


Of course, whatever cloned them would, in addition to imprinting memories, have to recreate all birthmarks, scars, etc.. If you're right, I suspect survivors will soon begin to discover minor discrepancies along these lines (e.g., they'll be missing a scar). Perhaps Locke's recovery from paralysis was a particularly glaring example of this phenomenon.


awsecond

Re: awsecond's resurrected theory


Although I'm new here, I've been reading these posts with interest, especially this clone theory. It sounds plausible, but doesn't explain the oddness of the island (e.g., a polar bear in a tropical setting).


It could be that the island is located in an area of extreme magnetic fluctuations so that the weather patterns are all mixed up. As such, at times it might be freezing and at other times it might be very hot - a polar bear (cold) and a boar (warm).


The clone theory also doesn't explain why the plane crashed. If these people are clones who need to adapt before re-entering society, wouldn't they simply have put them to sleep on the plane and landed it safely?


Very interesting.


DriftWood


Re: awsecond's resurrected theory


I think the Clone Theory is an interesting idea and you really spent a lot of time thinking about it and went into great detail about it! KUDOS!


I don't think it is plausible for the situation on the island, though. If the people had their loved ones cloned to bring back dead family members, etc., then they wouldn't have certain physical characteristics that are not part of a person's DNA (Jack has at least one tattoo, Shannon has pierced ears, etc.)


Unless you are suggesting that they were cloned as infants, their growth and development was accelerated to be completed quickly, and the clones made those physical adjustments (tattoos etc.) later.


I still think it's too far of a stretch. But an interesting idea nonetheless!


angry may queen

Re: awsecond's resurrected theory


Even clones have to eat. So how come they ran around trying to kill a boar when there was a dead polar bear ready to be deep fried?


DriftWood

reply to clone theory...


Possible explanation for the Polar Bear & Boar


I mentioned that I thought perhaps the Polar Bear and the Boar are part of the experiment. Those are some of the animals that were cloned as well. The animals being placed there as a test, or perhaps it is a "staged" threat for the survivors.


Imprinted Memories


Perhaps the memories from the donors are fused with the clones memories. They wouldn't necessarily be able to distinct which memories are their own and which ones are the donor memories. (keeping in mind they are unaware of the experiment...)


The Plane Crash


The plane could have been set up to take them to the Island and then a simulated crash occurred. It's easy to stage events if you have the resources. As for the dead, maybe they were not the "real dead" from the plane. There's even the possibility that one or more of the survivors are involved with the experiment.


Cloning In General


This is where suspension of disbelief begins and the "pseudo-science" fiction aspect is stretched for the imagination. My feelings are that the secret cloning has been going on for years and the clones were being observed by scientists worldwide. The island is merely the last phase for the clones before the go back to the lives they know...that is if they survive the island. The purpose for the Island is to make them understand the meaning of their life, to give them new memories and to clear up the confusion of memories that they ALL seem to experiment. Maybe the original concept was to clone a person and place them in the EXACT environment, trying to duplicate the the donors past life to an exact science and and there were some unseen complications. For example: the clone DOES in fact share inherited capabilities and personal qualities once placed in the EXACT environment the donor lived, BUT--they began to to exhibit the very negative qualities that lead them to the unfortunate fate of the donor resulting in their untimely death.


The scientist are trying to create the ideal human with all the benefits of the donors lives, but without the the foibles. They will eventually be returned to their normal lives...their family, professions, but only if they they survive the Island. Everyone will be an improved version of themselves--provided they do not succumb to their darkest fears from the past and the fears of their predicament.


Something to think about....


Just something to ponder...


xxandraxx


Re: awsecond's resurrected theory


Actually, driftwood, in a way it kind of does. It implies the survivors were cloned for a purpose--otherwise, why go to the trouble? It also implies the plane was crashed for a purpose--perhaps some sort of experiment?
As for why they wouldn't just put everyone to sleep, instead of crashing the plane, who's to say they didn't? After all, if they have the power to transfer memories from someone dead to a clone, they presumably have the power to implant new memories (i.e., of a plane crash as well). Remember, we never actually saw the plane crash.
Even if it didn't, however, whoever's running the experiment (if that's what it is) would not want the "survivors" to know they were experimental subjects. Hence the need for some plausible scenario like a crash to explain why they're on the island at all.


PS: I totally agree with xxandraxx that the crash could easily be faked. All the moreso since we never actually saw any "survivors" emerge from the wreckage.

awsecond

re: fried Polar Bear...

Good point. I haven't seen them eat any protein.
Hehehe...


Do you think they are vegans?


Angry May Queen wrote:


Unless you are suggesting that they were cloned as infants, their growth and development was accelerated to be completed quickly, and the clones made those physical adjustments (tattoos etc.) ... No, I was suggesting they were cloned after the death of the donor. I am also asking you to believe that this has been done with the approval of their loved ones--and that the memory fusion and the subliminal suggestions they were exposed to while growing up let them to the very characteristics, physical strengths and weakness, personality traits etc that the donor lived. So if Jack had a tattoo, it is because he felt the same compelling desire to do that...thinking it was his own, he followed the same career, liked the same foods, and some past memories that he doesn't quite understand are his own--but nonetheless has to deal with. Problem with the cloning is that the clones are nearing the turning point in life that leads to disaster. They are all manipulated to go to a designated place (an airport....) and all board a flight that results in the "plane crash".


xxandraxx

Re: response to Angry May Queen


Ah! I see what you mean. Thanks for the further explanation!


angry may queen

I'm not sure about Clones...

But, the hairbrush comment last night struck me as ODD.
How come there are no hairbrushes on this island?


Hair is the first place you go to get a genetic sampling of someone. Hairbrushes are always the first place police go to collect genetic evidence.


Coincidence?


Perhaps they are not clones but are going to be cloned? Perhaps the hairbrushes were removed from their luggage?


Just a thought. I'm not a big supporter of this theory (yet).


I'm trying to put everything together--


40 days = 1 season and the Noah's ark parallel...


48 people are required to create a healthy genetic sampling with enough genetic diversity... etc...
Perhaps I will return to this topic with more ideas... I don't know what to make of this idea quite yet.
Cheers!


purrkins

Re: I'm not sure about Clones...


Great point purrkins! I was wondering about that comment last night--too obvious to be a mere throwaway.
To run with what you've said, if they've been cloned using samples from the hair brushes, perhaps this explains the cryptic comment about Hurley's real age. Maybe the same applies to them all!


awsecond

Re: I'm not sure about Clones...


Thanks.


But I do want to add that I do not think they are clones (yet). I think it is possible that the hairbrushes were removed from their luggage to take the raw material to make clones in the future.


There is a wide and varied demograph of individuals on this island... This theory does make sense...
Was the plane then brought down so there would not be "doubles" walking the earth?


I'm not too keen on the Clone idea yet as a whole but I am willing to keep an open mind.


There are too many other "variables" to commit to this theory -- what is the Creature (and now I am beginning to think it appears differently to each person, as their skeletons in the closet -- "white rabbit" if you will -- for Locke it was "Helen" for Jack his "father" and it only appears invisible when there are multiple people around as it shifts between each person's "white rabbit" and therefore appears formless or invisible. I also think it is benevolent(?) and lead Locke to the boar while he was following "Helen," Jack to the water while following his "father.") But I suppose I should discuss this elsewhere...


Something is indeed afoot however -- And the Noah Ark parallel should not be overlooked nor the 48 survivors (actually, aren't we down to 46 now? Should we expect someone new to arrive shortly?) needed to create healthy balanced genetic diversity.


I will indeed keep my eye on this topic.


Now I need to go find my Hobbes and the Leviathan topic and see if I can make any sense out of my previous stabs at deciphering this show.


Good thread folks!
-----------
Oh!


And what was the cyptic comment about Hurley's age?


I missed this I think...


A friend called during Lost, err, an ex-friend now. They know not to call during Lost... ;-)


purrkins

Re: I'm not sure about Clones...


Purrkins: You may be right, but I think it makes more sense that they were already cloned because that would explain Locke's miraculous recovery.


The Hurley reference was to an interview with one of the writers:


"AICN: How old is Hurley?


DL: Hmmmm. Fascinating that you'd ask this. I would say he TELLS people he's 26."


People initially interpreted that to be a reference to some secret of Hurley's--and they may still be right. In light of this cloning talk, however, I'm not so sure.


awsecond

Re: I'm not sure about Clones...


True. This could explain Locke's "condition"


But then why remove the hairbrushes prior to the flight if they had already been cloned. This would serve no purpose I can think of...


Unless we bring in suspended animation -- and everyone was put on a flight, the flight was diverted and everyone gassed and put to sleep, cloned, kept is suspended animation until the clones reached the proper age and then put back on the flight which then crashed...


This seems, well, odd. Actually the whole show is a bit odd...


I think the key to this is something much simpler. I do not know it but I think it is simple once explained.
And this is why I keep watching...


Cheers!


purrkins

What??


I just can't buy this...


If all these families went through the effort to clone former loved ones, why would they strand them on an island?

Are they coming to get them back? What about the radio transmission? In it the french lady refers to something killing them all. Would you leave a cloned love one on an island where there was already some tragedy?


I'm more of the impression of a time/space warp or bermuda triangle thing.


mixx31

Interesting takes on the cloning theory...


Great insight on the cloning...


I'll still stick my my original theory about them being already individually cloned throughout the years.
Pure and simple this Island is an experiment for everyone. The Clones, the Scientists...etc. The clones do not know they are cloned remember?


The hairbrush thing is most likely a red herring OR just insignificant. I'd bet they can't find a razor later on...but the spoiled girl found her nail polish didn't she?


I'm sticking with my speculation that those survivors were placed there so they can come to terms with whatever demons are haunting them from their previous genetic incarnations. I think this is a study on the hazards of cloning. We are experiencing and experimenting with the unknown (cloning and it's effects...) and they must come to terms with their past memory. Why, so that the CLONES become better humans than the original. A family would want to do this if they wanted their loved ones to live again with an improved life. Maybe they will make a significant change in the world....maybe they just want the person back or to continue lineage. Why did scientists clone animals in the first place?


I was reading an article on twins a while back. It was studied that twins have some sort of psychic and mental & physical connection to each other. Twins share the same DNA as would a person who is cloned. It is often said one can "feel" or experience what the other is feeling.


Yes, I think they will be rescued at the right time, but not without consequences. If you think of the cloning and the reason behind it-- I think I have theorized the events to fit the cloning.


The other theories I've liked so far is the "resurrection" and " hotel California" . We won't know the outcome for a while--in the meantime, these theories are fantastic. Great imagination and thought put into every aspect of trying to solve the mystery of "Lost".


Good Work!


xxandraxx

Re: Interesting takes on the cloning theory...


Perhaps a red herring.


But this show is written so subtly that I think not (hey, my opinion, more often than not I am wrong).
Why talk about something so mundane that the average person would think nothing of it.


It struck me as odd but I thought nothing of it myself until I read your theory. If anything it actually lends credibility to your theory -- I'm just confused about the timing of it (are they clones or will they become clones).


Rest assured, I will be watching this thread and the show very closely for more evidence.
Cheers!


purrkins

Re: What Japanese couple?


Cloning is at the forefront of SCIENCE these days. I think the theory is quite imaginative and sounds like he's thought it through - very interesting! I think it's just as plausible as any other theory - reicarnation, purgatory, chemical weapons, why the heck not cloning?


KimmysHooked